Tilak Devasher discusses Pakistan's history from Jinnah to Imran Khan on The Ranveer Show

In this episode of The Ranveer Show, we welcome Tilak Devasher, an author, and a retired Special Secretary, Cabinet Secretariat of the Government of India

Tilak Devasher discusses Pakistan's history from Jinnah to Imran Khan on The Ranveer Show

TLDR: The key idea of the video is that  history is marked by divisions, conflicts, and the manipulation of religion and ethnicity, leading to ongoing challenges and uncertainties in the present.

00:00 📜  Jinnah’s call for direct action day   led to the creation of Pakistan, driven by the desire for special protection of Muslims due to their minority status and the exploitation of differences between Hindus and Muslims by the British.

1.1 Jinnah called for direct action day to demonstrate to the British that Hindus and Muslims could not coexist, and while he expected Indian Muslims to be good citizens of India, he also wanted the Congress government to look after them, leading to the creation of Pakistan.
1.2 The video is a special on the history of Pakistan, featuring an expert who has written multiple books on the subject, and it starts by discussing the pre-1947 history of Pakistan.
1.3 The speaker discusses his interest in studying Pakistan and how he aims to provide a new perspective on the country's problems, including its troubled history and fault lines, which are often overlooked in India.
1.4 Jinnah's movement for Pakistan was driven by a section of the Muslim Elite in North India who felt like a minority due to the decline of the Mughal Empire and the growing influence of the British, leading to the desire for special protection.
1.5 Khan and Judah highlighted the numerical disadvantage of Muslims compared to Hindus, leading to the feeling of alienation and the British exploiting the social and cultural differences between the two groups, ultimately resulting in the partition of Bengal, the establishment of the All India Muslim League, and the implementation of separate electorates, which escalated the differences between Hindus and Muslims to the political and constitutional level.
1.6 Speculating on historical events is challenging due to the numerous variables involved, making it difficult to determine the course of history.

13:17 📜 Jinnah believed in the need for a separate Muslim country, leading to riots and partition, while also planning tribal lashkars to attack the British and later using them to attack Kashmir.

2.1 The Muslim League did not face any consequences or imprisonment for demanding Pakistan, and only faced hardships and sacrifices during the partition and the Hindu-Muslim killings in Punjab.
2.2 The movie "Hey Ram" depicted Hindu-Muslim riots in Bengal before independence, specifically during the time when Jinnah called for direct action day in 1946 to demonstrate that Hindus and Muslims could not coexist.
2.3 Jinnah genuinely believed that Muslims needed a separate country, as evidenced by his change in dress and his articulation of the Lahore resolution in 1940.
2.4 Jinnah believed in the idea of Hindus and Muslims not being able to coexist, leading to riots in Calcutta in 1946, but Gandhi's fast brought peace.
2.5 In February 1947, Jinnah planned to organize tribal lashkars to attack the British and create communal riots in the Northwest Frontier province to force them to concede Pakistan, but since the British had already conceded, the lashkars were not used at that time, but were later used in October 1947 to attack Kashmir.

19:05 📜 Jinnah orchestrated riots to push for Pakistan, British saw strategic value in a separate Pakistan, Kalath’s independence was compromised, Pakistan struggles with diverse cultures and ethnic identity issues.

3.1 Jinnah ordered direct action and orchestrated riots in Calcutta to demonstrate the need for Pakistan and force the British to concede it, even though the British had not yet decided to leave the subcontinent.
3.2 The British Empire believed that a United India would suit their interests until 1947 when they realized that a separate Pakistan would be strategically important due to its proximity to the Soviet Union and the Middle East oil, and because they suspected Nehru of being too socialist and potentially developing friendly relations with the Soviet Union.
3.3 Kalath was declared an independent country in 1947, but the British forced them to sign the instrument of accession to strengthen Pakistan's border with Iran for oil wells, despite Kalath's historical independence.
3.4 Kalath was an independent country that wanted to be independent from British rule, and despite signing agreements for independence, there have been ongoing insurgencies in the region, particularly by the Baloch people, who have resisted merging with Pakistan.
3.5 Pakistan has struggled to establish a unified national identity due to the diverse cultures, languages, and historical rivalries of its regions, as highlighted by the speaker in the video.
3.6 Ethnic identity has been a major issue in Pakistan, as religion was not enough to keep the diverse ethnicities together, leading to sectarianism and loyalty to different sects.

28:49 📜  Pakistan’s history is marked by divisions and conflicts due to the lack of a clear definition of who is considered a Muslim, with the British playing a role in manipulating the referendum and the creation of Pakistan based on separate nationalities, while the ethnic rivalry between Punjabis and Pashtuns persists.

4.1 There is no clear definition of who is considered a Muslim, leading to divisions and conflicts within Pakistan's history.
4.2 The British wanted the Muslim majority province to be a part of Pakistan, so they held a referendum to overturn the verdict of the Muslim majority voting for the Hindu Congress, and the Congress party agreed to it under pressure from the British.
4.3 Pakistan's creation was based on the idea of separate nationalities for Hindus and Muslims, and the Khan Brothers' demand for a referendum on self-governance for Pashtuns was rejected, leading to their boycott and the majority voting for Pakistan.
4.4 The speaker explains the division of modern-day West Bengal into Northern and Southern regions, drawing a parallel to the consolidation of students in 1757 and the creation of the Duran line in 1893 to establish a subtle border between settled districts and tribal areas.
4.5 During the British Raj, the British army stationed in Waziristan during World War II due to their inability to control the tribes, and they wanted to demarcate the region between Afghanistan and British India to prevent a potential Russian invasion, leading to the first Afghan war.
4.6 The ethnic rivalry between Punjabis and Pashtuns in Pakistan still exists, although it has been moderated, with Karachi being the largest Pashto city and a significant Pashtun population in the Pakistan Army.

40:14 🔍 Pashtoons  in Afghanistan have a culture of revenge and honor, leading to acts of violence, while Pashto nationalist parties in Pakistan advocate for Pashtoon rights and the Taliban rejects the Duran line.

5.1 Arrogant individuals who believe they can dominate others often face consequences, as demonstrated by a famous Pashto saying.
5.2 Revenge is a critical aspect of Pashtoon culture, where honor is everything and taking revenge is considered necessary even across generations and territories, surpassing the importance of laws and leading to acts of violence.
5.3 The Pashtoons in Afghanistan have developed their own mechanisms to live a tough life due to the historical invasions they have faced, resulting in generational trauma.
5.4 Pakistan is not on the brink of a civil war, but there is an insurgency in Balochistan and the real threat would be if the Pashtuns were to unite.
5.5 Pashto nationalist parties like the awami National Party and the PTM are advocating for the rights of Pashtoons in Pakistan, while the Taliban rejects the Duran line.

46:40 🇵🇰 Pakistan’s border disputes with Afghanistan and India, focus on keeping Afghanistan weak, security challenge from Pashtuns, injection of religion into politics leading to radicalization and sectarianism.

6.1 Pakistan claims the Durand Line as its international border with Afghanistan, but both Afghanistan and India have disputes over the borders that Pakistan claims.
6.2 After the third Afghan war, the 1921 Treaty of Kabul specified that either Afghanistan or British India could rescind the treaty, and in 1949, Afghanistan declared that all treaties, including the Durand Line, were abolished, resulting in Pakistan knowing that legally there is no border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and Pakistan's foreign policy is focused on keeping Afghanistan weak and dependent on them.
6.3 Pakistan faces a security challenge from the Pashtuns who want their own territory and have set up shadow governments, and if not handled properly, it could lead to a civil war.
6.4 The injection of religion into politics in Pakistan, starting with Jinnah's use of the slogan "Pakistan and Allah" to mobilize Muslim voters, led to the unleashing of religious forces that have since been difficult to control, resulting in a divide between ethnic identities and religious identity in the country.
6.5 Pakistan has become highly radicalized, with incidents of church burnings and extreme acts of violence in the name of religion, leading to a dangerous level of sectarianism and hatred.
6.6 Creating a country based on religion can lead to extremism and intolerance, as seen in Pakistan where the majority Muslim population is influenced by religious teachings and the media, while the urban elite may have a more secular mindset.

59:14 📚 Pakistani textbooks teach distorted history, Indian Muslims chose to stay in India after partition, Jinnah’s reasons for creating Pakistan are unknown, Muslims in India are happy with religious freedom, CAA provides accelerated citizenship to persecuted non-Muslims, current status of CAA is uncertain.

7.1 Pakistani textbooks teach distorted versions of history that reinforce hatred against Hindus, Jews, and Christians, which is acknowledged by Pakistani intellectuals.
7.2 Many Indian Muslims chose to stay in India after the partition because they either couldn't go or believed they could do just as well in a secular country, while those who went to Pakistan were influenced by the idea of a new Islamic state.
7.3 Jinnah's response to a question about why he created Pakistan when a Hindu Congress government could look after Muslims is unknown, but it raises the fundamental question of how Muslims are treated in India compared to non-Muslims in Pakistan.
7.4 96% of Muslims in India are happy with the lack of restrictions on their religious observance, while 60% of African Americans in the US face hindrances in pursuing their religions, debunking the propaganda that Muslims in India are unsatisfied and proving their integration into the country.
7.5 Jinnah wanted to go back to Bombay after creating Pakistan, and while some people chose to stay in India due to their properties or personal reasons, the non-Muslim elite likely migrated to India, and the Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA) was introduced to provide accelerated citizenship to persecuted Hindus, Christians, and Sikhs from neighboring countries.
7.6 Muslims in India can still apply for citizenship as usual, but the Citizenship Amendment Act (CA) aimed to expedite the process for non-Muslims from Muslim-majority countries seeking refuge in India, although its current status is uncertain due to protests and controversy.

01:09:12 📚 People should understand the past to comprehend the present, as the speaker previews upcoming episodes on post-Independence Pakistani history and welcomes guest recommendations for the podcast.

8.1 People should know the past and understand the roots of what is happening today in order to comprehend the timeline of history and the connection between past events and present circumstances.
8.2 The speaker apologizes for any offense caused and expresses a desire to engage with Pakistani guests and international listeners, and previews upcoming episodes on post-Independence Pakistani history.
8.3 Guest recommendations are welcome for the podcast, and the host is grateful for feedback and suggestions for future guests.

Key Insights

Factors contributing to the creation of Pakistan

🌍 The host aims to present an objective side of Pakistani history through a respected geopolitical commentator who has written multiple books on the subject.

📚 The author’s books on Pakistan have been appreciated in Pakistan because they provide an objective view and deeper understanding of what’s going wrong with the country.

🤔 The creation of Pakistan was not solely based on the differences between Jinnah’s faction and the Indian faction, but also stemmed from the feeling of minority persecution and the desire for special protection by the Muslim Elite in North India.

💥 Jinnah’s call for direct action day and his statement about Hindus and Muslims not being able to stay together highlighted the deep-rooted divisions between the two religious groups in pre-independence India.

🧐 Jinnah’s transformation: His change in dress and personal style reflected his commitment to Islamization and the idea of Muslims as a separate nation.

😮 Jinnah’s belief in the idea of Hindus and Muslims not being able to coexist led to the riots in Calcutta in 1946, resulting in the death of thousands of people.

🌍 The British Empire believed that a united India would suit their interests, but later realized that a strategically important Pakistan would be better for their control over Middle East oil and countering the Soviet Union.

🌍 The creation of Pakistan was driven by the fear of Hindu dominance, but the country struggled to maintain unity due to the importance of language and regional identities.

Challenges and consequences of religious identity in Pakistan

🗣️ “If we are forced, the Pakistan forces to merge us with Pakistan, then every Baloch son will write in Rebellion against Pakistan and this is what is happening today.” - The issue of rebellion against Pakistan in Balochistan is rooted in the resistance against forced assimilation.

💥 The injection of religion into politics by Jinnah to unite people and create a separate country ultimately backfired, as many locals in Pakistan identify more with their ethnicities rather than their religion.

💔 The story of a 14-year-old boy who cut off his own hand in the name of religion highlights the extreme levels of radicalization and the potential dangers it poses to society.

🌍 Making a country based on religion can eventually backfire, as secularism is an important aspect of modern-day countries.

📖 The book “The Subtle Subversion” by the Sustainable Policy Development Institute of Islamabad documents the distorted themes taught in Pakistani schools, highlighting the need for change in their society.


Q: What are some of the problems faced by Pakistan and their reasons?

A: Pakistan faces several problems, many of which trace their origins back to before the country’s creation. These problems include genetic fault lines, ethnic fault lines, political fault lines, and security fault lines. Genetic fault lines refer to the diversity of ethnic groups in Pakistan, each with their own distinct cultural and linguistic identities, which has hindered the establishment of a unified Pakistani identity. Ethnic fault lines manifest in ongoing insurgencies, particularly in Balochistan, where the Baloch people have consistently resisted being forcibly merged with Pakistan. Political fault lines arise from a distorted version of history taught in Pakistani schools, which celebrates certain individuals and rejects others, contributing to divisive narratives. Finally, security fault lines stem from the pincer movement posed by the Taliban and Pashtoons, who present a significant security challenge to Pakistan.

Q: How were the differences between Hindus and Muslims exacerbated in the early 1900s?

A: The differences between Hindus and Muslims in the early 1900s were exacerbated by several significant events. The first was the partition of Bengal in 1905, which divided the province along religious lines and intensified communal tensions. The establishment of the All India Muslim League in 1906 further institutionalized the idea of a separate political identity for Muslims and created a platform for advocating communal interests. Additionally, the introduction of separate electorates in 1909, under the Morley-Minto Reforms, reinforced the notion of separate Hindu and Muslim communities and fostered a sense of religious division. These events, combined with British policies that aimed to politically and constitutionally divide Hindus and Muslims for their own strategic interests, played a significant role in exacerbating the differences between the two communities.

Q: What was the significance of Jinnah’s call for direct action and the demand for Pakistan?

A: Jinnah’s call for direct action and the demand for Pakistan had profound implications for the Indian subcontinent and the subsequent creation of Pakistan. Jinnah ordered a “Direct Action Day” on August 16, 1946, in Calcutta, with the intention of creating riots to demonstrate the necessity of a separate Muslim-majority nation. This event resulted in widespread violence and heightened communal tensions between Hindus and Muslims. Jinnah’s demand for Pakistan aimed to secure a separate homeland for Muslims within an independent India. By emphasizing the need for a distinct nation, Jinnah sought to address the concerns of a section of the Muslim elite in North India who felt marginalized and sought special protection. Ultimately, Jinnah’s efforts, combined with larger political and historical circumstances, led to the partition of British India and the creation of Pakistan in 1947.

Q: What are some of the factors contributing to the radicalization and extremism in Pakistan?

A: Radicalization and extremism in Pakistan can be attributed to various factors. One prominent factor is the indoctrination of hatred and sectarianism in certain mosques and schools, where religious teachings are manipulated to promote discriminatory attitudes towards Hindus, Jews, and Christians. Additionally, the distortion of history in Pakistani schools, which often portrays certain groups or individuals negatively, can contribute to a sense of otherness and intolerance. Furthermore, socioeconomic factors, including poverty and inequality, can create fertile ground for extremist ideologies to take root. Moreover, the injection of religion into politics has also played a role in radicalizing certain sections of society. These factors collectively contribute to the existence and proliferation of radicalization and extremism in Pakistan, posing challenges to societal harmony and national security.

Note - This content is generated by AI, we believe it is accurate, but we don’t claim any liability of inaccuracies in the AI generated content.

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