Dr. Raj Vedam on Ancient Indic Astronomy on sangam talks

Sangam Talks reclaims India’s civilizational narrative from colonial discourse, revives intellectual tradition to rejuvenate Indian civilization, enabling Indians to connect positively with their past.

Dr. Raj Vedam on Ancient Indic Astronomy on sangam talks

Dr. Raj Vedam, MSEE, PhDEE, works at the confluence of applied mathematics, engineering, algorithms, and computer science. Using tools of Archeo-Genetics, archeo- astronomy and archaeology, and evidence of knowledge transfers from ancient India, the speaker has put forward a strong thesis with verifiable facts, on the antiquity of the Indian Civilisation, and the many discoveries made by the ancients. Dr. Raj Vedam is a co-founder of the think-tank, Indian History Awareness and Research, and resides in Houston, Texas. He can be reached at rajvedam[at]yahoo[dot]com.


The key idea of the video is that ancient Indic astronomy in India was highly advanced and accurate, challenging prevailing narratives and highlighting the need for collaboration, critical analysis, and a reevaluation of Indian history.

Key Insights

Advanced Knowledge and Understanding of Astronomy

🌠 Indians had advanced knowledge of astronomical phenomena such as precision, transits, planetary conjunctions, lunar occultation, and comets, even before Europeans had telescopes and extensive data.

🌌 The discovery of galaxies outside the Milky Way was a groundbreaking revelation that changed our understanding of the universe.

🌌 Indians observed the Andromeda galaxy, making it the world’s first description of a galaxy, predating the Greeks’ knowledge of it.

🌟 Contrary to claims of Indian astronomy being influenced by Greeks and Babylonians, evidence shows that Indians had a deep understanding and control over sky measurements.

🌌 The ancient Indians had a sophisticated understanding of observational astronomy, including the use of instruments like the goliantra and the concept of ecliptical coordinates.

📅 The Indians had to regularly recompute their calendars due to the changing vernal equinox position, showing their awareness of the precision of astronomical phenomena like the precession of the equinoxes.

🌌 Ancient Indian astronomers accurately measured the precision of celestial movements, with a precision of 54 Arc seconds in a year, showcasing their advanced knowledge and understanding of astronomy.

📐 Indians had trigonometry for spherical coordinates, debunking the Western claim that Hipparchus was the father of trigonometry.

📚 Parashara’s work provides mathematical data on the orbits of Jupiter and Mercury, indicating that ancient Indians had a deep understanding of planetary theory.

🌌 Ancient Indian astronomers like Aryabhatta and Parashara had extensive mathematical data and calculations, predating the Greeks, which were used for various astronomical computations.

🌌 The Surya Siddhanta, an ancient Indian astronomical text, contains observations of the star Swathi (Arcturus) that date back to 10,800 years ago, suggesting the incredible antiquity of Indian astronomical knowledge.

⏰ By using mathematical planetary software, it is possible to accurately date ancient events like the story of Dhruva to approximately 2800 BCE, showcasing the precision and sophistication of ancient Indic astronomy.

🌅 The East direction was not determined by the rising sun, but by the position of the Kritika nakshatra (star cluster) during the Equinox, showcasing the advanced astronomical understanding in ancient India.

Distorted Narratives and Suppression of Indigenous Knowledge

📚 The narration of Indian history has been influenced by various frameworks imposed by colonial powers, missionaries, and socialist ideologies, leading to a subversion of identity and a distorted understanding of Indian accomplishments.

📚 The history of India has been corrupted by various ideologies, including colonial, eurocentric, missionary, socialist, and Marxist, leading to distorted narratives and the suppression of indigenous knowledge.

Antiquity and Validation of Ancient Indian Astronomy

📚 Recent scientific studies have validated the antiquity of ancient Indian astronomy, with nature papers revealing extreme solar particle storms dating back to 7176 BCE and 5259 BCE.

📚 Two independent studies using tree rings and ice cores have validated the ancient Indian astronomical observations, pushing the cultural memory of the Surya story back to 9000 years.

Long Summary

  1. 00:00 🌌 Indian history has been distorted and portrayed as primitive, but evidence shows its ancient roots and contributions to fields like astronomy, including observations of phenomena like eclipses and possibly the Andromeda galaxy.

1.1 The lecture discusses the enforced narration and frameworks imposed on Indian history, which have led to a subversion of identity and the portrayal of Indian civilization as primitive and backward, despite evidence showing its ancient roots.

1.2 The speaker discusses the need for a scientific and rational analysis of historical narratives, critiquing the prevailing Eurocentric and colonial models that have shaped the understanding of Indian civilization and its contributions to fields such as astronomy, and emphasizes the importance of challenging these narratives to establish a more accurate and inclusive framework.

1.3 The speaker discusses the denial of agency in narrating Indian history, the distortion of Indian civilization’s history, and the antiquity of Indian astronomy, highlighting the observations made by Indian scholars such as Aryabhatta on solar and lunar eclipses and their explanations for phenomena like Rahu and Ketu.

1.4 Indians in ancient times observed phenomena such as Earth’s precision, transits of inner planets, planetary conjunctions, lunar occultation, and comets, raising the question of whether they also observed the Andromeda galaxy.

1.5 The Andromeda galaxy was initially mistaken for a nebula until Hubble’s measurements in the 1920s revealed it to be a separate galaxy, leading to the understanding that the universe is not just the Milky Way.

1.6 Sharmistha, the daughter of Aditya King, has a bath with her friend Devyani, their clothes get mixed up, Sharmistha wears the princess clothes, Devyani gets angry and pushes Sharmistha into a well, she is saved by Yayati, later marries him, and as atonement, her father sends her to work as a maid for Devyani, but she also has an affair with Yayati.

20:13 🌌 Ancient Indic astronomers observed the Andromeda galaxy, measured the axial precession of the Earth, used instruments and mathematical calculations to observe and measure celestial bodies, and had a mathematical coordinate system to locate stars.

2.1 The Andromeda constellation is identified as Devayani in the Indian tradition, while the Greeks only saw a large constellation and did not mention the Andromeda galaxy, which can be seen as a dull cloud in very dark skies.

2.2 In the Mahabharata, a Rishi named Ashtaka discusses a mysterious astronomical object that is not like anything else, and the rishis speculate that it is the Andromeda galaxy, which can be seen as a dark cloud with the naked eye but appears as a galaxy through a telescope.

2.3 Indians observed the Andromeda galaxy, which was described as a dark cloud-like object with countless worlds heading towards Earth, and this shows that Greeks had copied Indian stories.

2.4 Indian astronomy measured the axial precession of the Earth, which allowed them to make observations and measurements of celestial objects over thousands of years, contradicting claims that Indians copied from the Greeks and Babylonians.

2.5 Ancient Indic astronomers used instruments like goliantra and water clocks, as well as mathematical calculations and graphical tools, to observe and measure celestial bodies and determine coordinates such as latitude and longitude.

2.6 For over 5000 years, ancient Indians used instruments to measure the skies, knew about cardinal points and formed a mathematical coordinate system to locate stars, and had to recompute their calendars due to the changing vernal equinox position every time, with evidence of their observation of the 25,700-year precession.

33:07 🌌 Ancient Indic astronomers had advanced knowledge and understanding of astronomy, accurately measuring celestial movements, utilizing bamboo instruments and mathematical modeling, achieving extraordinary accuracy in planet modeling, and developing a complex epicycle model for the solar system that was found to have greater accuracy than the Greek model.

3.1 The ancient Indic astronomers accurately measured the precision of celestial movements, with measurements ranging from 36 to 72 arc seconds per year, demonstrating their advanced knowledge and understanding of astronomy.

3.2 Ancient Indic astronomy utilized bamboo instruments and mathematical modeling, including trigonometry, to achieve high accuracy in predicting celestial movements, debunking the claim that Indians merely copied from the Greeks.

3.3 Ancient Indian astronomers achieved extraordinary accuracy in planet modeling, as evidenced by their knowledge of the orbits of Jupiter and Mercury, contradicting the claim that they simply copied Greek astronomy.

3.4 Ancient Indian astronomers like Parashara and Aryabhatta used mathematical data to calculate the daily motion of celestial bodies, disproving the claim that Aryabhatta copied from Ptolemy.

3.5 Indians had a complex epicycle model for the solar system, including contracting and expanding epicycles, which showed evidence of innovation, spherical geometry, trigonometry, measurement devices, prediction tracking, mathematical equations, error correction, approximation, and parameter fitting, and was found to have greater accuracy than the Greek model.

3.6 The ancient Indian model of astronomy, as described in the Surya Siddhanta, was found to have greater accuracy in tracking the motion of the Sun compared to the Greek model, with evidence suggesting its antiquity dating back to 5000 BCE.

50:29 🌌 Ancient Indic astronomy dates back to 8000 BCE, showcasing extensive observations and knowledge, with references to astronomical events and the start of Kali Yuga contradicting received wisdom.

4.1 Stars in our solar system, including the Sun, have proper motion as they orbit the galactic center, and by analyzing the angle at which the stars change, it was determined that going back to 7500 BCE minimizes the error between ancient Indian astronomy and modern calculations.

4.2 The ancient Indic astronomy reveals the antiquity of the Surya Siddhanta, with observations dating back to 8000 BCE, showcasing the Indian civilization’s extensive time and effort in observing, mapping, and passing on astronomical knowledge.

4.3 The celestial coordinates in the sky can be used to date ancient astronomical events, such as the story of Dhruva, and by tracing back thousands of years, it is estimated that the story of Dhruva was made around 2800 BCE.

4.4 Ancient Indian texts, such as the puranas, contain astronomical knowledge that suggests their antiquity, including references to the position of stars and the method of finding the East Direction, dating back to approximately 3000 BCE.

4.5 The traditional start of Kali Yuga in ancient Indic astronomy is referenced to 3102 BCE, which contradicts the received wisdom that the Rig Veda was composed in 1200 BC.

4.6 Aditi, the mother of gods, is the repository of all good qualities and in a particular episode, she chooses a boon where all sacrifices will begin and end with her.

01:02:33 🌌 Ancient Indic astronomy challenges prevailing narratives, showcasing the accuracy of ancient Indian measurements, the corruption of Indian historiography, and the discrediting of the Aryan Invasion Theory.

5.1 Ancient Indians reset their celestial calendar to Aditi in order to determine the timing of their rituals and festivals, reflecting their confusion caused by the changing positions of stars and nakshatras.

5.2 The ancient Indic calendar provides evidence of a great conjunction in 6779 BCE, and recent scientific papers have validated the occurrence of extreme solar particle storms around 7176 BCE, supporting the accuracy of ancient astronomical measurements.

5.3 A solar event in 7176 BCE, 10 times greater than the Carrington event, was observed by ancient Indians, validating the cultural memory of Surya’s story and contradicting what is taught in textbooks.

5.4 The parallel stories of the missing seventh sister in Greek and Indian mythology, as well as other similar stories, demonstrate how the Greeks have copied a lot from Indian mythology.

5.5 Antares, a star associated with Mars, is called anti-mars in Greek literature, but Indian knowledge explains that it is named so because of its association with the ruler of the nakshatra Jiesta, which is Mars, highlighting the corruption of Indian historiography by colonial, eurocentric, missionary, socialist, and Marxist frameworks.

5.6 Ancient Indian astronomy discredits the Aryan Invasion migration Theory and shows high accuracy in measurement and precision, with evidence from genetics, archaeology, and astronomy dating back 9000 years, challenging the prevailing narrative.

01:29:14 🌌 The speaker emphasizes the importance of verifying ancient texts to determine the validity and dating of astronomical phenomena, highlighting the need for collaboration and critical analysis in the field, while also discussing the conflicting dates and opinions in ancient Indic astronomy and suggesting focusing on other aspects of Indian civilization instead.

6.1 The speaker emphasizes the importance of verifying the accuracy and interpretations of ancient texts in order to determine the validity and dating of astronomical phenomena, highlighting the need for collaboration and critical analysis in the field.

6.2 Researchers in the field of ancient Indic astronomy often have strong opinions and conflicting dates for events like the Mahabharata and Ramayana, making it difficult to reach a consensus on the correct interpretations and dating, so the speaker suggests focusing on other aspects of Indian civilization instead.

6.3 Solar flares and the celebration of sankranti are not directly related, and while there may have been a coincidence in the past, precision has caused them to no longer coincide, and solar flares can last for a period of time.6.4 Ancient Indian astronomy, specifically the concept of Rashis, was derived from the Adityas and not from the Greeks, as evidenced by the fact that the Greeks had an additional constellation, and historical records suggest that the Greeks borrowed from India rather than the other way around.

6.5 India had deep historical connections with Greece, as evidenced by Greek writers mentioning India, the presence of Indian langur monkeys in a Greek palace from 1600 BC, and the fact that Indians were likely more advanced in astronomy and astrology than the Greeks.

6.6 The speaker discusses their personal experiences of funding their own trips to give talks, with no support from anyone, and expresses the need for a solution to this issue in order to promote mathematics and science.

01:43:40 📚 There is evidence of ancient mathematical calculations and man-made harbors in India, challenging misconceptions about cultural continuity and periodization, while highlighting the importance of oral tradition and the possibility of ancient Indian agriculture.

7.1 There are written records of mathematical calculations in ancient India, including radiocarbon dating of archaeological sites and the discovery of man-made harbors dating back 18,000 years.

7.2 Historians often fail to interpret archaeological records accurately and instead rely on outdated theories, while archaeologists on the field have the necessary data and expertise to provide more reliable interpretations.

7.3 There is a misconception in Indian history that there was a Harappa period followed by a Vedic period, but in reality, there is cultural continuity and material evidence that disproves this periodization.

7.4 Terracotta figurines and footballs found in Rajasthan challenge the assumptions of cultural continuity and periodization in ancient Indic civilization, while the reliance on archeology and writing as evidence is questioned, and the mathematical knowledge of ancient Indians is highlighted.

7.5 To access primary sources and explore Indian history with an objective view, students can attend online classes at Hindu University of America to learn about the advanced mathematics and knowledge systems of ancient India.

7.6 The speaker discusses the importance of oral tradition in Indian civilization and challenges the notion that written evidence is the only valid form of historical record, highlighting the error correction mechanism in chanting and the accuracy of Shruti literature, while also mentioning the possibility of agriculture in India dating back longer than previously believed.

02:00:23 🌌 Researchers in ancient Indic astronomy face challenges in collaborating, but there is a need for a platform to discuss and analyze data; ancient Indian astronomy is not recognized in the Western world due to eurocentrism; there is no evidence of an Aryan Invasion in Indian texts; current software cannot resolve paradoxes in dating ancient events; English education in India resulted in a disconnect from Vedic thinking; context is crucial in interpreting translations.

8.1 Researchers in the field of ancient Indic astronomy face challenges in collaborating and working together due to the lack of institutions and platforms, but there is a need for a format where people can come together, discuss, and analyze data points to achieve meaningful results.

8.2 The speaker discusses the lack of recognition and acknowledgement of ancient Indian astronomy in the Western world, particularly in the naming of stars and planets, due to eurocentrism and ignorance.

8.3 Indian historical tradition does not mention any invasion, and there is no evidence of an Aryan Invasion in Indian texts, contrary to popular belief.

8.4 Most software used for simulating ancient astronomical events are based on mathematical algorithms, but there are paradoxes and inconsistencies in dating ancient events that cannot be resolved with current updates.

8.5 The deliberate imposition of English education in India since 1835 resulted in a disconnect from the country’s own knowledge systems, including the Vedic thinking, and reading translated works can lead to a loss of cultural context and absurd interpretations.

8.6 Context is crucial in interpreting translations, as word-for-word translations can be meaningless and multiple interpretations may exist.


Q1: What is the significance of Indian astronomy in challenging the narration of Indian history?

A1: Indian astronomy plays a crucial role in challenging the narration of Indian history by unveiling fascinating facts that have been overlooked or distorted. The existing civilization in India was effectively replaced by the Vedic religion, Sanskrit language, and Vedic ecosystem through a Linguistics model influenced by Eurocentric perspectives. This false narrative portrayed Aryans as illiterate nomads who destroyed a superior civilization in India. By understanding the problems with Indian history narration, we can properly appreciate the rich knowledge and contributions of Indian astronomy.

Q2: How did ancient Indians demonstrate their advanced knowledge of astronomy?

A2: Ancient Indians displayed a remarkable understanding of astronomy through various observations and calculations. They had knowledge of planetary transits, conjunctions, lunar occultation, and comets. In fact, they were able to estimate and predict the transits of Mercury and Venus across the Sun. They also had intricate knowledge of daily motion and planetary movements, which were crucial for applications such as astrology. Additionally, they constructed advanced instruments and utilized trigonometry to measure the skies. Notably, Aryabhatta and others developed iterative prediction methods for planetary movements, showcasing their dynamic and advanced thinking.

Q3: What evidence supports the antiquity of Indian astronomy?

A3: There is substantial evidence supporting the antiquity of Indian astronomy. Surya Siddhanta, one of the oldest parts of Indian astronomical observations, dates back to 8000 BCE. It provides accurate calculations and mentions significant planetary conjunctions in the past, such as the conjunction in mesharashi on February 22nd, 6779 BCE. The accuracy of Indian astronomical models is evident when compared to Greek models, as the Indian model from 5000 BCE showed significantly less error. These findings discredit the Aryan Invasion Theory and highlight the sophistication of Indian astronomy in ancient times.

Q4: How does the ancient Indian narrative connect with astronomical events and mythology?

A4: The ancient Indian narrative intertwines astronomical events with mythology to convey deeper meanings. For example, the Andromeda galaxy, described as a dark cloud in the Mahabharata, holds significance in Indian tradition, where Yayati is associated with the Andromeda galaxy. Indian astronomy also sheds light on the celestial equator, solstices, and the direction of constellations like Kritika in relation to the equinox point. Furthermore, the traditional start of Kali Yuga is marked by the conjunction of planets Sun, Moon, and the Ravati Nakshatra, as described in Surya Siddhanta. These connections between astronomy and mythology provide a holistic understanding of ancient Indian culture and beliefs.


Note - This content is generated by AI, we believe it is accurate, but we don’t claim any liability of inaccuracies in the AI generated content.

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